Three senior officers from the PNG Forest Authority have failed to provide any answer to allegations of widespread illegal logging during a 40 minute appearance on live radio.

On 6th November, at a public seminar organised by Act Now, communities and civil society organisations presented detailed evidence on the abuse of Forest Clearing Authority licences to allow illegal and unsustainable logging.

There are currently more than 20 FCA logging projects across the country and they are responsible for more than one-third of PNG’s total log exports.

Case studies published by ACT NOW show how the FCA licences, which are supposed to allow the clearing of discrete areas of forest for agriculture planting, are being used to allow large-scale selective logging operations.

It is alleged the Forest Authority is not following proper process in issuing the licences without the informed consent from forest owners and without proper scrutiny of the agriculture plans and it is failing to act when the permit conditions for agriculture planting are not complied with by the permit holders

On 15 November, the PNGFA Chief Operating Officer, its Legal Director and the Director Forest Acquisition and Allocations appeared on FM100’s talkback radio show to respond to the allegations 

However, in a forty-minute radio interview, the PNGFA officials did not offer any refutation of the allegations of illegal logging or mention any of the specific abuses detailed in the FCA case-study reports.

PNGFA COO, Mrs Magdalene Maihua, did suggest the twelve-month moratorium on new FCA projects imposed by the National Forest Board in November 2022, may still be operation, but provided no clarification or details.

Instead, Mrs Maihua concentrated on giving the history behind the FCA logging licence, which she said was introduced to provide additional financial benefits to forest owners from the sale of merchantable timber when forests were cleared for agriculture. She also spoke to the resource constraints under which the PNGFA operates and how it hopes to improve its performance in the future.

Legal Director Tobias Dalid confirmed that if proper process is not followed in issuing an FCA licence or the logging company does not follow the licence terms and conditions then any logging could be illegal - but he failed to address any of the concerns raised about specific concessions.

Director Acquisitions and Allocations, Jim Menge spoke to the new ways of managing forest resources the PNGFA is hoping to introduce through a review and amendment to the Forestry Act 1991 and which could include changes to the FCA licence. But again, he failed to address any of the allegations about the current misuse of FCA licences.

Mrs Maihua closed by inviting ACT NOW to sit down with the PNGFA to discuss it concerns, an offer that ACT NOW will definitely try and take up, but she did not explain why numerous previous letters and requests for meetings from ACT NOW have gone unanswered by the PNGFA.

The full transcript of the Talkback radio program is reproduced below.

15 November 2024

Discussions this morning will be around the response, the PNG Forest Authority response, to the Act Now PNG, a local advocacy group, media release “Public Seminar demands action on the FCA, or Forest Clearing Authority, Forest Grab”, as they have been with us as well on the program last week. 

From the PNG Forest Authority I have with me this morning the Director of Forest Acquisition and Allocation Mr Jim Menge, who is also joined by the Chief Operating Officer with PNG Forest Authority Mrs Magdalene Maihua and also the Director Legal Mr Tobias Dalid who joins us on the program.

Lady and gentlemen good morning to you all and welcome to the program. 

Good morning. Hi, good morning. Good morning.

Thank you so much, thank you so much for sharing your time with us this morning around the discussion and some of the concerns that were raised earlier on.

Mrs Maihua you can start us by giving a brief overview of what the Forest Clearing Authority licence plays and the purpose of it as well

Thank you Mr Kim for having the PNGFA team here so that we can be able to elaborate on some misunderstandings on the FCA issues that are being raised by Act Now PNG.

Okay, as an overview I would like to say that the Forestry Act provides for several categories of harvesting authorities. One of them is the Forest Clearing Authority licence. What was the purpose of FCA? The FCA stemmed from the 2007 to 2012 National Agriculture Development Plan. Forested areas were required to clear for agriculture projects to bring development to the rural areas. The problem that we, I was around at that time too, the problem that we encountered at that time was what would happen to the forest or the merchantable pieces of logs that are going to be cleared from that forested areas? Are we going to just burn it and or let it rot away or burn it and that’s it, it becomes just charcoal and ash and that is it? So what happened at that time, the government at that time realised that the only way that they can, the landowners can benefit additionally from the development that will happen through the agriculture project was further utilisation of the monetary benefits. So what the government then did was that the Forestry Act was amended in 2007 and Sections 90A and to 90B was inserted to cater for that so that the timber that comes out from the cleared forest can be utilised commercially. So two sections were inserted in there, subsections. Sections, subsection A and B catered for the forest clearance for agriculture clearance and sections C and D catered for the roadline clearance, the road corridor clearance so that the timber that is taken from the road corridor can be utilised as well to commercially and that brings additional benefits in terms of monetary benefits to the landowners as well as the government of the day through the provincial government as well as the local level governments. So that was the reason why, that was the purpose for that FCA at that time.” 

Mrs Maihua, thank you for the response. I totally ignored that part earlier on when asking about yourself but I will have to ask you now for yourself, your role in the organisation itself if you could give a brief  on what you do as the Chief Operating Officer in the PNGFA and how long you have been with PNGFA

I have been with the PNGFA since 1993, that is almost 31 years, but if you take in the probation period it would be 33 year from 1991. And I have seen a lot of things happen and a lot of changes that took place over this period of time.  

Your current role as Chief Operating Officer?

My current role as Chief Operating Officer of the PNGFA, the PNG Forest Authority, is to oversee the operations, operational directorates of the PNGFA and coordinating their duties and responsibilities so that what is, what is their duties and responsibilities are actually being executed.

Correct, thank you. Turning my attention to Mr Menge as the Director for Forest Acquisitions and Allocation before we get into having you make your point you tell us about yourself and your role in the organisation as well

Thank you Mr Kim how having us onboard, Actually my role as a Director for forest acquisition and allocations we are responsible for acquiring forest areas in the country and also allocating it then in sustainable forest projects and to make it as well that all these things are complied to in line with the Forestry Act.

Yes, yes thank you. I’ll turn my attention this time to Mr Dalid, if for yourself  you could give just a brief information about yourself and your roe in the PNG Forest Authority as well

Thank you. I am as you have said, my name is Tobias Dalit, I am the Director responsible for all legal matters in PNG Forest Authority. Being a director is something close or would be the replica of a principal legal officer in any organisation. For our case the PNG Forest Authority. I deal with legal matters on forestry side and in the sustainable resource sector we always have legal issues, in the form of illegal logging, the list can go on, we deal with those.

Thanks you. Mr Menge, Mrs Maihua has touched on the main objectives of the FCA projects and also the benefits that it had ambition back in the day to benefit the landowners in this instance. In a recent speech the Managing Director Mr Mosoro emphasised the need for balancing economic benefits with the environmental preservations, now how does the National Forest Authority aim to achieve this balance and tackle the problem of illegal logging and land grabbing?

Thank you Mr Kim. Basically in a nutshell we have gone past our traditional ways of managing our forest in the country, we have transformed progressively over the years since under our current Minister and our managing director and the management team we have onboard and we want to embrace by considering different assets or accommodating things that we find in the forest, not just timber alone and so by doing so we look at the environmental values as well and also at the same time all other commercial values that we can be able to get out of the forest so that people can be able to access basic services that the government cannot be able to reach especially to the rural population that is out there in the country. Now that is a vehicle that we can be able to use and in doing so we capture a lot of aspirations and wishes of the local people, the local population that we have in the country. We all know that 97% of the forest areas that we have in the country are born by landowners, we all are landowners for sure and therefore the decision rests with the landowners. In any case we want to pursue a project we all get consent from the landowners from the beginning and so the Forestry Act, amended Act 1991 provides for seeking that consent from the beginning and so their wishes is captured. Where my Directorate is responsible we go out to acquire the land rights, not the land rights but tree rights from the landowners through acquisition process and so we acquire the rights tree right to manage for 50 years in the case for FMA, Forest Management Agreement concept and that is where in the earlier conversation or interview by FM100 with our managing director he was emphasising on how we can better manage our forests capturing all the interests, interests meaning the environmental values also timber products that we can get out from the forests and also looking at carbon benefits that we can get out if we pursue down that road. Now, how can we as a country we are yet to have some strong regulations to add to manage our carbon benefits that we have in our forests. So we as an organisation we have our Forestry Act now its going through review process and so some of these benefits and alternatives in terms of carbon are going to be looked at. As and when that is approved then we should be able to realise the much talked about benefits in maximum from our forest and also we have other non forest product values that we get out from the forest medicinal values and all other things so when we acquire forest we also get the views of the landowners, they have certain locations within the forest area that we want to acquire as the project that they have traditional values of certain forest areas that they have, sacred sites and also other tourism hotspots that they may have also wildlife habitats all these are considered in our acquisition and allocation studies before giving a project . These are factored in there and that’s where when as the MD made a mention in the last speech the interview that FM100 did because we are looking at that now. We are moving away the traditional ways of managing our forests before and that is one that we are moving into that direction and also at the same time the amendment to our Forestry Act is being looked at will cover all this moving into new ways of managing our forest 

Thank you Mr Menge. Turning to Tobias with regards to the concerns that were raised by ACT NOW PNG around the issuance of the Forest Clearing Authority licences from the legal perspective how do you see this issue being addressed if it was alleged to be a breach in the by ACT NOW PNG on these licences from the legal perspective I would like you to shed some light on this.

Thank you Mr Kim. Like all institutions especially for government institutions they are run by legislation so they are created and left to run empowered and given a function to facilitate certain processes towards actually commercialising the forest resources in this country and we have the Forestry Act. As mentioned by the Chief Operating Officer these amendment came about, the environment is down to the Act which actually became the vehicle to reach FCA’s were issued on. Started as early as 2007. There has been consequential amendments to that, the Forest Clearance Authority as we know it now. In 2009, I think the latest was in 2010. The changes were actually done, in its exact form when it first come about it didn’t have the component of public hearing, it didn’t have the content of public awareness as well as the participation of the stakeholder which is the Department of Lands and also the Department of Agriculture and Livestock. So when the first time, when the legislation got passed the first time it missed out those two crucial government entities which were later on incorporated. That is to cater for the public hearing and awareness. Because, if you look at it the Forest Clearing Authority is actually an agriculture orientated project but then in order to start that agriculture project you have to clear out the forest cover and that’s where the commercialisation of the forest becomes handy where you do not leave out merchantable trees that ought to be sold off for you know financial benefits that go back to the landowners. And afterwards, when the forest is cleared you then have the actual agriculture project for managing. So I’ll give you an example, if you want as in Kimbe or in West New Britain Province they had to remove the whole cover forest before they planted oil palm. At that time some of the merchantable timber were lost, were not commercialised in order for the landowners to benefit from it. So that was the idea behind it that propel the Forest Clearance Authority that we now have. Now, if you look at it that way then that’s for all purposes the intent was genuine, it was done to reflect the situation at that time. Also done to give value to the resource without having to turn it into firewood or leave it to rot away. So that was the whole idea and eventually the process became one that had public hearing where you saw the participation of the Lands Officers from the Department of Lands and you had the officers from the Agriculture and Livestock. You also have among that process when you are not given your Forest Clearance Authority yet, not yet, you have to go through those initial stages. You also have to meet up and speak with the Provincial Forest Management Committee which is a committee made up of persons representing the bureaucracy in the provinces. They include the Provincial Administrator, the landowner rep, the women’s rep, you have the resource owners, sorry mentioned the resource owners already, and then you have the local level government rep. So if you look at it when it comes to the awareness and public hearing as well as the consent that is obtained after going through that process, all the key stakeholders are captured or ought to be captured. The only time it becomes a problem is when one of the process is by-passed. Then it becomes an illegal operation, or like you like previously you mentioned illegal logging. When one of the processes is missed out then it becomes a problem. We end up in court. The court usually if it finds that our process was not complied with they issue an order quashing the decision to issue the Forest Clearance Authority, meaning the issuance at that time is illegal for breach of process. But that is how we get to know and see if there is a illegal logging that is undertaken we get it from the courts. The second way to understand how illegal logging could become obvious is when the terms and conditions of the Forest Clearance Authority, usually signed through agreements and of course contained in the Forest Clearance Authority licence itself. If there is a breach of those conditions and the for example, if the royalties are not paid on time or if there is a breach of the Logging Code of Practice which PNG Forest Authority exercises where you are to have buffer zones that promote conservation in an area, if there is no respect for it or if there is logging in those buffer zones then it is a breach to the terms and conditions of the FCA now and then it becomes illegal logging where administratively the PNG Forest Authority then deals with it either by suspending the operation, cancelling the timber permit or by penalising the, sorry not the permit, the licence, actually suspending the licence, terminating the licence or the issuance of a lawful direction where penalties are drawn from the offender. In this case it would be the developer. So that is how we deal with illegal logging as seen. Now to call it illegal logging out of the air without making specific references to how it is that it is now is termed as illegal logging would be very much misleading or misconceived unless we get it from these two fronts. So in other words if we have done wrong with the issuance of the timber permit, the licence, Forest Clearance Authority or if the developer did not comply with those terms and conditions then the PNG Forest Authority is at fault and therefore the operations can then be called illegal logging.

Thank you Mr Dalit for that explanation.                      

PART TWO

That is the response from the PNG Forest Authority we are having this morning and our special guest who joins us on the program or who joins us this morning on the program includes the Forest Acquisition and Allocation Director with PNG Forest Authority Mr Jim Menge, who is also joined by the deputy, rather the Director for Legal Mr Tobias Dalid and also the Chief Operating Officer with PNG Forest Authority Mrs Magdalene Maihua.

We have taken on the questions regarding the role of the Forest Clearing Authority and how the role or how it plays and also the purpose of that and from the legal perspective as well Mr Dalid gave some explanation around that as well. 

Now I will direct this question to, probably each one of you can have a say on this, but we have touched on some of the reforms within the PNGFA or the PNG Forest Authority such as the reviewing of the Forestry Act of 1991 and also implementing the integrated forest management agreement that is in partnership with the British High Commission as I can recall, how do these reforms relate to the current challenges faced by the PNG or the National Forest Service projects relating to the Forest Clearing Authority licence?

If I can take Mr Menge to answer that first.  

Thank you, let me start by saying that what is integrated FMA, FMA meaning that Forest Management Agreement. That means that this area, this forest area that is acquired for 50 years from the landowners to manage their timber rights under the term of 50 years. And then when it is acquired through the normal 34 process we have very stringent and dubious 34 process that we go through to be able to come up with a project called Forest Management Agreement. And that is to promote the sustainable forest management activities to get the best out of our forest in the country. And what do we do? Previously we only look at timber but timber in a round log form but now the current Rosso Marape, Marape Rosso governments focus to take back PNG through forestry we are embracing 100% downstream processing on most of the timber projects that we are embarking on or we are allocating since then and through that project we are also looking at other land uses within the Forest Management Agreement area. Now we talked about how can we look at FCA projects, but FCA projects is going through the reform because of the a lot of critics, a lot of views from all civil societies and everyone so we are looking strictly on how best we can be able to capture the interests of everyone, not just to do away with that but what are the alternatives that we can be able to compose and continue to sustain that interest. In a way we are saying that integrated FMA. We are looking at virgin forest area which is only forested area to manage for 50 years that has these trees in that part of the forest area has to be harvested for a term of 35 years permit or licence we had right. So what happens after that 35 years? There is guarantee because we are managing that sustainably, meaning that trees what we call 55 dbh diameter and above are all harvested and the rest below are sustained for future, next cycle of what 35 years cut. So, first 35 years they can cut the major ones and then after that the next cycle of 35 years the younger ones that are left behind will be able to come up and then they can go into second rotation or even third rotation and that is the principal that we want to embrace and give a lot of prominence. At the same time we are promoting downstream processing as a facility to be able you know to condition all the developers who are coming on board. We are encouraging them, look this is the way to go forward for forestry in the future. So we are encouraging them to you know operate under full established processing plants and condition them in the forest management or project agreement, agreements that we allocate for that FMA project. And also not only that, but like I said in the FMA area there could be some special terms within the Forest Management Agreement area, grassland area, peat land, swamp lands they are all valuable, they are communities in their own rights so we look at different options that can be developed within that FMA area. If we do away in the proposed amended Forestry Act that is in ongoing we are thinking of doing away with the FCA concept so how can we promote agriculture interests within that FMA. Now we will not give FCA project in the forested area but if the landowners want agriculture the areas within the FMA area that are only grassland or other areas that are not forested now they are to look at that area to carry out their agriculture plans or intentions. And not only that but we also look at other swamp areas or other peatlands or what we call areas that are more good for carbon projects so they are also values, there are other values in that forest area including wildlife, in provision of wildlife areas within swamp areas within that FMA  so there are different multiple benefits that landowners wish to preserve and also get value out of that get the best out of their forest areas or FMA area you know. So we are looking at during our allocation studies the team goes out and consult the landowners themself these are the alternatives there, how do you want to plan so that we can be able to capture in the Forest Management Agreement and so in the process when the project is permit, the timber permit is issued and the operation is issued they know that this area is needed for this purpose alone. So that is why we are trying to model as we are going through the transition stage of going into capturing all other emerging issues including carbon, forest carbon, we are also looking at these options what you call REDD. So in trying to get the best out of our forest and then not compromising the environmental values that we also people and everybody, all the population, I mean the 13 to 14 million people plus of people that is in PNG continue to enjoy and also the rights of future generation through that FMA concept will continue to embrace and continue to make sure that the value of the forest is being enjoyed.

Mr Menge thank you for that well articulated information or explanation on that within the FCA itself for the Forest Clearance Authority area that was earmarked for whatever project that is involving agriculture and livestock there are different scenarios, different landscape areas within that area so you have really put some things into perspective here so thank you for that. I have some questions but with the time catching up with us I will pass on the next question to Mrs Maihua.

With the forestry sector aiming to address some of the issues regarding the benefit sharing and transparency and all that some of the challenges if you could highlight Mr Maihua, some of the challenges that are faced, PNG Forest Authority is faced up with at this point in time. 

Many of the challenges that we faced at this time is mainly to do with financial constraints, especially to do with benefits, it’s getting the benefits to the landowners on a timely basis. A lot of legal challenges catches up with the Authority when that happens. Not only in the FCA projects only but also in the FMA projects to.  

What we encountered from when we started with the FCA was that because of funding issues our limited number of financial resources as well as the human resources was shared with the FCA projects so that’s kind of led to some issues to do with compliance monitoring of the projects on the ground. So we realise that with the current moratorium on foot issued by the National Forest Board in, at the end of 2023 that is helping us now and with the current reforms on the consultation of LFAs TRPs and FCAs and converting them, migrating them to FMA projects it is now helping us now because we are able to release the financial resources as well as human resources to, for us to further manage the FMA projects in terms of compliance monitoring and achieving what needs to be done on the ground. That includes environmental monitoring as well too because you realise that Environment and Conservation are never on the ground, it is PNGFA that is always on the ground, even in the remotest parts of this country. Those are some of the challenges that we faced that other government Departments will not put on or actually get the trips to go into the project areas that they don’t see. So a lot of the time they just going to air and saying whatever they want and that really does not go down well with PNGFA because there is a lot of reforms that PNGFA is doing at the moment with the, since the last three years when our new Managing Director as well as the Minister and the new Chairlady, chairperson came onboard they have, they have actually strategically uplifted PNGFA to the next level in which a lot of reformations are happening, transformations taking place in the Authority in which in the sector in which outsiders cannot. That is why we invite Act Now PNG and other NGO groups if they have any issues with PNGFA they should come on board and meet with us so that we can be able to iron out issues and then they will also help us just our donor and international agencies are helping out, helping us out to be able to achieve some of this reforms. They should be able to sit down with us and discuss so that we can be able to understand each other and they help us to roll out a lot of this reforms that are taking place and its and that reforms we are going to reforms now through the Forestry Act. 

So we would also like to invite Act Now PNG to come onboard and be able to have audience with us to discuss and find out what’s happening, really happening inside PNGFA. Until and unless they come on board they will understand what’s occurring, there’s a lot of reformation happening inside PNGFA and for the forestry sector. So I would like to say that a lot of things have happened, challenges are there. The whole government departments, government agencies are facing financial issues but we can always work around and that is one of the reformations that will happen under the Forestry amended act and that is to do with one of the matters that the donor agencies are assisting us is for us to revalue our resources and see the real worth of it so that we can see as Director Menge has said there is a lot of potentials inside the forestry sector in which we can open up, open up for development. So my, I’d like to invite Act Now PNG to actually come in and have audience with PNGFA.

Thank you Mrs Maihua andI believe that also goes out to any other civil organisations, individuals to, PNGFA sending this invite out to get into a round table discussion and iron out some of those things all for a common good. I’ll, with the time really catching up on us, I’ll turn to Mr Tobias, Mr Dalit final question here for the PNG Forest Authority again, according to all of you, has initiated and implementing many new reforms such as a review of the Forestry Act 1991. If you could just briefly explain in detail the reforms and explain further on this. Thank you.

Thank you Mr Kim. The Act came about in 1991. It is well over 33 years now that the terms are now in place to have it, have the legislation amended unfortunately. But we are seeing changes there and the stride is doubled where we have actually drafted going to be put before the government body responsible especially the First Legislative Council. To actually have it, give us the endorsement we need to go before Parliament. We hope we are not denied opportunity, it is still a pipeline and a long process as yet from the respective offices or government entities responsible. But we are taking it on a positive note we will try and push it through. Secondly, the 1991 Forestry Act was a direct result of the Barnett Inquiry that saw illegal logging is so prominent. Following that the former legislations were repealed. The 1991 Forestry Act when it came about it tried its very best to capture what the Barnett Commission of Inquiry found out and proposed. From that legislation it was the vehicle to acquire forest was, acquire forest and commercialise it was Forest Management Agreement which is still around today. Quite unexpectedly and maybe for genuine reasons or otherwise the Forest Clearance Authority came out in 2007. So you see forestry actually left behind the Forest Management Agreement in favour of Forest Clearance Authorities and from this long line of history and decisions taken onboard the governments would see to it that either we retain the Forest Clearance Authority as one of those many harvesting authorities that PNG forest offers or we do away with it entirely. The other option would be that if we do do away with it through the amendments then those existing FCAs that have no problem with or that PNG Forest Authority does not have problem with they also be converted into Forest Management Agreements. Now, Forest Management Agreements are tailored in such a way where it practices sustainable forest management. Now, what is sustainable forest management? It is selective logging, it is ensuring that there are buffer zones where conservation practices are utilised. Forest Management Agreements stands for protection of certain rare species of trees, even preservation of water as a source of rivers. So these practices are inbuilt into Forest Management Agreements guided by the Logging Code of Practice and other conservation tools that PNG Forest Authority employs. But that is the aim of the amendments now would be, firstly, either to retain FCA, secondly to remove it entirely, and the options for converting them into Forest Management Agreements.

Thank you Mr Dalit for that. Unfortunately our time has caught up with us and we have a next guest standing by for the interview so we will end it here but we hope to have a team again anytime so before we also go into recess as well at the second week of December.

END